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Good start --
Written by patterjack (1194 comments posted) 13th March 2008 |
You worried me with that intro -- 7 5 7 -- but you got it right with 5 7 5 in the actual verse !!!
The first one is a nice piece of work -- the second one is a good follow up until breath of mouth. which is not an English sounding idiom
But a great start
patterjack |
oops - fixed the no's
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 13th March 2008 |
Thank you, pj.
Yes, that last line gave me so much trouble, so I just settled on 'breath of mouth'.
I thought about "Soul's glow echoes on" or something like that to finish on a positive note, but it sounded lame.
Mia  |
Written by margarita (30 comments posted) 13th March 2008 |
I loved both..even though the second one ends with slightly clumsier english...I like it..it almost sounds like a translation and perhaps that's why I think it resonates so well!
However perhaps "Breath off mouth"?
Cheers |
thank you, margarita
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 13th March 2008 |
Writers' perception amazes me. I got inspired by py's entropy poem, so I borrowed from everywhere, including King James translation & Korean translation of Isaiah 40:6-9, Proverb 31:30 (orignally ancient Hebrew poetry) and kind of mixed it altogether. That's why I have the 'breath of mouth' expression, (now I see it). That phrase and imagery are not unusual in both Korean and ancient Hebrew thinking.
Mia
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Written by NathanRoberts (277 comments posted) 14th March 2008 |
The first one is more effective than 100 years of feminist rhetoric in reducing me to a trembling wreck 
I tend to like the idiosyncracies that occur when people write in a language that is not their native tongue...don't iron them all out. |
Nathan, thank you...
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 14th March 2008 |
I think???  Any feminist statement in it was accidental.  I won't iron out all my awkward English - because I wouldn't know how!
I hope your family is getting over Bobo's sad departure.  I really loved that poem.
Mia |
Written by Fledermaus (3301 comments posted) 14th March 2008 |
| The first about men, the second about women? I don't interpret either as feminist. Liked them. |
men then women,
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 14th March 2008 |
yes, that was the intention. I feel the vanity men exhibit are different from the the vanity women feel, although they are converging in today's soceity.
But still I think men wear their accomplishments as their badge of their manhood, and women still tend to value their appearance - hence the booming cosmetic surgery procedures.
I get shocked whenever I see my parents' photographs in their 20's and 30's. And I feel just how transient human 'pride' is.
Mia |
Written by Diddi (80 comments posted) 15th March 2008 |
these two Haiku are beautiful, yet so profound. I came back a few times to read them.
I notice the comment concerning the last line of the second Haiku. If I am wrong in making a suggestion, or have erred in any other way please tell me.
suggestion: would "Air" suit better as a replacement for "Breath" |
Didi, thank you
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 15th March 2008 |
for your kind comments.
I think 'air' might be better (ie. suggests the emptiness and transiency more clearly in English), or as Margarita suggests 'off mouth' - as in disappearing in a puff etc.
But after wrecking my brain for hours until it became numb, I thought perhaps I should give up and leave it as is, as a testament to my hodge-podge linguistic, cultural, religious background, and try another haiku when I recover.
Mia |
Written by Diddi (80 comments posted) 15th March 2008 |
| That's a good idea, taking a rest from it. I think your back ground sounds just perfect to me. You sound like a true citizen of the world. |
why not
Written by patterjack (1194 comments posted) 15th March 2008 |
combine Diddi's with Margarita's implied suggestion and finish with null like a puff of air ?
patterjack
|
puff of air???
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 16th March 2008 |
hmmm... Maybe that's a good idea. Since I say men 'wither and fall', women should just go out 'like a puff of air', too. That should silence the 'feminist' accusation!
But I can't bear it. I need my women to 'puff out' with class, style and elegance.
Mia  |
I love haiku!
Written by MaxCarey (7 comments posted) 16th March 2008 |
I really like how these two haiku counter-balance each other so perfectly.
If I may throw a bit more into the cooking pot of inspiration for the final line: "Like a breath from lips" or "Like breath in the wind"? I only post to offer inspiration though, and not to detract from the original verse which I still find charming. |
Sorry...
Written by MaxCarey (7 comments posted) 16th March 2008 |
I just realized that your poem planted the word "charming" in my mind and I just used it without thinking.
I meant it only in a positive sense and certainly didn't mean to imply that your work was either fleeting or deceitful! |
MaxCarey, thank you...
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 16th March 2008 |
I'm only happy that you found my attempt at haiku charming! Your suggestions sound oriental and eastern. Lovely. eg. Korean word for breath is 'mouth-mist', so we can't get away from the image of lips when talking about breath. In Hebrew the word for breath, wind and spirit are interchangeable, and it provides a fascinating alternative interpretation of original Hebrew texts. (I don't pretend to know Hebrew, I just know how to look up dictionary.)
I will bear your suggestions in mind. Thank you. You guys are making me think.
Mia  |
Written by lauthiamkok (60 comments posted) 28th March 2008 |
I favour the first part of this haiku,
"All men are like grass,
and their glory like flowers.
They wither and fall."
As I am not sure for the second part of it, I understand the meaning, but it seems to tell me - beauty is a something "bad".
"Charm is deceitful,
and beauty fleeting, it fades
Like a breath of mouth. "
I would rather say charm is "heartbrokening" because "it fades like a breath of mouth." or something shortlived.
But your haiku has given me something to stop and think today thanks!
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Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 28th March 2008 |
You have a point, Lau. I haven't quite thought of it that way. I was talking about the vanity of men and women, and how transient human boasts are. But I am also talking about how sad it really is, too. You are making me think!
Mia |
Written by Orlock (7 comments posted) 25th April 2008 |
Both pieces convey the transcience of the human experience - the 'wither', 'fades' and 'fleeting' and for that reason I find them a little sad but nevertheleass poignant.
I agree with the comment above about not changing all of the idiosyncracies in your poems: the 'like a breath of mouth' line immediately struck me as a little incongruous and for that reason it was memorable and I started to think what you meant by it. I like poetry that makes you think. I've read a bit of haiku and often find that its beauty as a form of poetry is in its depth (hidden in a very simple formula).
I started to wonder what a 'breath of mouth' could mean, so I found myself breathing through my mouth to capture the sound (daft, I know!). Anyway, no matter how many times I did it the 'breath of mouth' sounded distinctly like a sigh - and a sigh seems oddly appropriate for the first two lines of 'Charm is deceitful, and beauty fleeting, it fades'.
A charming and memorable piece in itself.
|
Orlock, a sigh!
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 26th April 2008 |
Thank you for the thoughtful review. Boy, you made me think! I wanted to convey a sense of brevity like a vapour that comes out of our mouths in cold weather, that is visible, but vanishes without a trace even as we watch it, and the sadness of it all. A sigh! Yes, it makes perfect sense. Thank you. There is a Korean saying, 'Interpretation is better than the dream.' I think your review is more poignant than what I've written. ) Thank you for that insight!
Mia |
agree
Written by fellpony (1616 comments posted) 26th April 2008 |
| with most of the remarks above, so I won't repeat them; however, I believe that if the poem addresses the human condition rather than the natural world, the term is not Haiku but Senryu? |
fellpony, haiku & senyu?
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 26th April 2008 |
I didn't know what a haiku was until a couple of months ago . (I would have thought it was Japanese food before then.) And I didn't know it had to have reference to seasons and nature until after I wrote this! I only found out about Senryu because Ned wrote a funny piece just recently. I'm confused about senryu - does it have 5-7-5 form? I thought it had to have some sort of humour??? Anyway, I still quite confused as you can see.
Mia  |
Written by fellpony (1616 comments posted) 26th April 2008 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senryu
senryu sometimes have a darkly humorous side, but not always. They can be looser than haiku in the number of "morae" - "up to" 17, where Haiku have to have the correct number. |
Written by Brett (785 comments posted) 26th April 2008 |
Haiku or Senryu, both are lovely pieces Mia.
I posted a work some months back called The Drunkard's Haiku, on reflection I thought that it should be considered as a Senryu, but then it does refer to the drunkard being akin to rainfall - so I am still unsure whether I have written a Haiku or Senryu.
Good work and cheers. |
fellpony, Brett, thank you
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 26th April 2008 |
fellpony, for the enlightenment. I read the wikipedia on senryu before, but I was still puzzled. But after your short and succinct explanation (the best kind), I feel much clearer.
Brett, thank you for your encouragement. I've read your haikus. I thought they were very touching, and another one was funny (night, night haiku). I see what you mean. They could be senryus...
Thank you again.
Mia |
Inspirational!
Written by Katanga (1229 comments posted) 26th April 2008 |
Fascinating discussion above!
Funny how the slight incongruity, as some have put it, of 'breath of mouth' has stimulated so much thought.
I think they're great - I've never tried a Haiku before, let alone a Senryu, but you have inspired me to try.
I shall trawl through GW for more, to try and get to grips with the form. Cheers! John X |
John, thank you
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 27th April 2008 |
for your comments. I'm beginning to wonder if what I've always considered to be a handicap in my writing ambitions (English being my 2nd langauge), might be an asset. I find haikus (and senryus) very interesting, too. I hope to read yours very soon.
Mia |
Hello Mia
Written by bobc (50 comments posted) 15th June 2008 |
| Thanks for your interest. I really like the disapline of thought here. Maybe the word "the" instead of the word "a" in the last line would show more of the finality involved. But since I'm new to haiku, maybe not. If you do a computer search on haiku, there are many good books and writings about haiku. |
Bobc, thank you
Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 16th June 2008 |
for your comments and suggestions. You have made me think. The definite/indefinite/no article 'the'/'a'/[none] for me is the final obstacle to conquer in learning English. While I understand generally how I'm supposed to use them, I'm forever frustrated exactly how I'm supposed to nail them at times.
Anyway, I look forward to reading more of your haikus. Thank you again.
Mia |
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