Walking over streets made wasteland
Back over ghost-ridden streets of blood
This brutal town,
Where they struck him down.
He died for us, he died for us
Still today we fire bombs
Innocents pierced with crowns of thorns
But it was here that a king was born
And he died for us, he died for us.
With vicious whips we struck his back
And spat on his face between attacks
Yes, compassion our hearts did lack
But he died for us, he died for us.
Still he trudges over broken ground
Still he struggles with his burden
So ask yourself
If you’ll help carry his cross
Because he died for us, he died for us.
|
Written by Brett (759 comments posted) 21st March 2008 | Lighten up, it's Easter weekend, is this really the time for
such maudling christian false sentiment? If you truly believe you should be celebrating his resurrection - Jesus.
As for 'the vicious whips WE struck' and 'compassion OUR hearts did lack', this is classic religiously instilled guilt (you're not catholic are you?).
You're young and a whole life is waiting for you. Enjoy it.
Cheers
Brett |
Written by Fledermaus (3248 comments posted) 21st March 2008 | Wasn't that sacrifice the whole point? It's one of those complicated issues Christianity doesn't seem to have fully solved yet. They are angry with those that killed their living god, yet meanwhile without that killing, they would not have been released from Eve's sin.
I have read several different interpretations of those events, and most reflect the attitudes of the age in which they were written rather than what could really have happened 2000 years ago.
Your piece is an interesting attempt to commemorate the Way of the Cross, yet the repetition of the last line did spoil it a little for me.
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Written by stevetroster (1549 comments posted) 21st March 2008 | Red Rag!
“He died for us, he died for us.” Allegedly.
“So ask yourself if you’ll help carry his cross.” Rather reluctantly I raised the question with myself, and the answer was NO.
Here’s is my take on things. If (IF) Jesus actually existed, his ‘Ultimate Sacrifice’ was a damp squib. The son of God! Immortal! Able to resurrect!
A sacrifice? It’s not much of a sacrifice if you know you can’t die. Sacrifice - a token gesture, at best!
I’ll stick to chocolate eggs, thanks.
All the best,
Steve.
| Good Friday (God Friday)
Written by Josie (2780 comments posted) 21st March 2008 | In actual fact I believe that when we really do wicked things to each other, we offend God, who is a God of love. Good Friday (which is really God Friday) can be a time for contemplation - and I think perhaps we should contemplate on the fact that over 2000 years later, nothing has changed, for we are still seeing inhumanity to man, which is a pity. The good thing about Easter is that Christians do rejoice in the fact that Christ overcame death - and that is the rejoicing. As human beings, and especially here in England, we see new life shooting up all around us, and I've been from Ilkley to Clitheroe today (past Pendle Hill, Sue) and the sun was shining and the sky blue, and the fields were full of little new born lambs, many wearing little blue plastic jackets to keep out the cold. The roadsides in many places were lined with daffodils. Thank God for Easter! I've always liked it.
PS Jesus was not born in Jerusalem, but in Bethlehem. A poem from the heart Mr Soul - a poem to make one think. |
Written by Veronica_Milvus (603 comments posted) 21st March 2008 | Let's look at this as poetry, and not criticise its religious ethic. I thought the first couple of lines were particularly well done "ghost-ridden streets of blood" is not a bad line at all, and when I got to the beginning of the second stanza I was reminded of the wars still going on in Jerusalem to this day. A poignant point, I thought.
Maybe it would have been less controversial if you had used "they" instead of "we" in the third stanza, but I guess you are saying that we all contribute to suffering, and in fact, if you are a Christian, then you might believe thst your ongoing sins just add to the suffering that Christ endured, so i do take your point.
"our hearts did lack" is a little bit lazy though - another example of a syllable that was squeezed in to keep the metre going.
I do think that other people have said these things before, so I'm not walking away with any particular new understanding after having read the poem. but a good effort, keep writing. | not interested in the religion
Written by brickle (7 comments posted) 21st March 2008 | Same old stuff. Your expression is lacking because it looks as if you have not bothered to construct proper sentences to connect your ideas, like in
Still today they fire bombs
Innocents pierced with crowns of thorns
which isn't a very good English sentence.
And you lost all the rhymes in the last verse
|
Written by Phil (6683 comments posted) 22nd March 2008 | It is virtually impossible to separate content and style. Left without content all we have are syllables that fit together. Might as well write tum-ti-tum etc.
I did think that you had some strong images but the piece had the odd glitch, such as did lack that spoiled the flow.
I find it difficult to comment further without addressing the content. So here goes. These are your beliefs and you have every right to express them. I would expect that themes such as these are pretty popular amongst many Christians at this time of year. I don't share your belief, I'll defend your right to write about it, but also the rights of others to question - specially in terms of how it works in terms of how the poem develops. In that framework, for me, there are two issues.
For someone such as me, the arguments are intellectually impoverished and devalue the piece. Here isn't the place to argue theology though.
The use of personal pronouns is a little irking. I didn't spit at him, whip him or in any other way hurt him. I wasn't there. I do understand the metaphorical use of the words - but that relates back to my first point.
Interesting how you separate modern day cultures or faiths. We are the ones who hurt Jesus, and by implication can be saved - whereas they still fire bombs. Is Christianity becoming a little more exclusive?
Phil |
Written by fellpony (1603 comments posted) 22nd March 2008 | | aside from the confused content, which you're at liberty to express, the poem was rather constructed, as others have already indicated. Not one I'll be keeping for later reference, I'm afraid. |
Written by fellpony (1603 comments posted) 22nd March 2008 | | somewhere while editing I lost the word "sloppily" from in front of "constructed". Just so we're clear. | Thanks
Written by mr_soul (126 comments posted) 22nd March 2008 | Thanks for all the comments. Ok, I'll try address some of the points. I'll bear in mind the criticisms, I'll try to work on this piece and make it better.
Firstly, the use of personal pronouns was deliberate. When writing this piece I originally started to use the word "they". I decided to change it however to try and put across a point, mainly that suffering is still very much prevalent in our world today, and we can all fail as human beings, we can all be responsible for suffering. We are not perfect, we all have flaws. But I knew it was open to debate. Obviously we weren't present when Jesus was killed, yet there were those who defended him at the time, who would not have "spat on his face" and so forth. And I'm sure, for example, that although Britain and America entered into the Iraq war, many of their citizens were against that. Does that make us responsible for it? So I accept there is a lot of room for debate but that was in some way my intention.
Phil made a very good point. I didn't use "we" when referring to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On reflection this was probably a mistake. I certainly didn't try to imply that somehow Christianity was exempt from the troubles of the world, that its other faiths who are to blame. Certainly not. There are good and bad people from every faith, every culture. And people professing to be Christians have been responsible for as much suffering as anyone else.
I thought this was a very suitable time to publish this Brett, it was Good Friday after all. I'm not trying to force my beliefs down anyones throats, not at all, I was just reflecting on something that is very important to me, and trying to raise some questions from it. The story of Jesus is still the greatest story ever to have been told in my view. But that is my opinion. And if you don't think it was much of a sacrafice, well, I'd suggest watching Mel Gibson's Passion of the christ. I don't think they'd be many of us willing to swap places with Jesus after seeing that. He still had to feel the most excruciating pain and ridicule before his death.
Anyway, thanks for all the comments. |
Written by Brett (759 comments posted) 22nd March 2008 | Joking that Good Friday was not a suitable time to publish this piece I know may have come across as facetious, but that's what it was - a joke. I know the story of Christ is a very good one, I don't need to watch a film about it, I've read the gospels (one of the main factors to my atheism), but what about Judas' sacrifice? Going down in history as a right bastard. If it was God's plan that his son should die to be risen again, how does the execution of this plan proceed without Judas? No Judas, no christianity. Give the man his due and canonize him.
All the best
Brett
|
Written by mr_soul (126 comments posted) 22nd March 2008 | Ok, sorry I didn't see that as a joke lol. Sorry I should have made myself clearer, it was stevetroster who suggested that Jesus dying on the cross wasn't much of a sacrifice, I was trying to address his point.
I agree with you about Judas. The whole point about Christianity is forgiveness. What he did was what any human being could have done. That story just emphasises human beings' failings. Judas felt deep remorse after betraying Jesus. I believe Jesus would have forgiven him, because that's the Jesus I believe in.
I don't want to come across as some sort of "Bible-basher", believe me I'm not. I have great faith in Jesus, I have many issues however with the church. But I won't get into that. I respect everyone's views on this, everyone should be free to believe what they wish.
Thanks again. |
Written by stevetroster (1549 comments posted) 22nd March 2008 | “And if you don't think it was much of a sacrafice, well, I'd suggest watching Mel Gibson's Passion of the christ.”
So, if it’s in a film it must be true! Does that means that James Caviezel is really Jesus?
I saw Mel Gibson’s ‘Brave Heart’, another wonderfully accurate piece of Hollywood-style history!
Let’s try and keep it real - or unreal, as the case may be!
All the best and Happy Easter (are you allowed to be happy?),
Steve. |
Written by philkent (157 comments posted) 23rd March 2008 | No expert on poetry here I admit sooo......
As a poem expressing and commenting on your own faith and beliefs it had some nice ideas in linking the past and present and contrasting Christ's suffering and the ongoing suffering they still face in that region. I have to say in all honesty (remember no expert here just an opinion) that some of the lines worked better than others and the end refrain of 'he died for us' became slightly repetative and a bit maudlin. The idea was good but perhaps the language needs to be worked on a little. The use of personal pronouns I have no problem with, you could approach this theme from a purely humanist angle and the pertinent message remains we keep doing crappy things to each other....why?
I have no major objection to the religious content. It's your views expressed in a poem and is no more indicative of you forcing your beliefs on others than me writing a ghost story because I believe in ghosts.
| Thanks philkent
Written by mr_soul (126 comments posted) 23rd March 2008 | Thanks for the comment. Much appreciated. Yes, I agree this one could be improved, I'll try to work on it. At least I've got a whole year to work on it ha!
Thanks again | religion
Written by meadowcroft1964 (102 comments posted) 18th April 2008 | | religion to me is a very personal thing and we all have the right to believe or not without criticism. Your poem gave me food for thought .we seem to think along similar lines i wonder if you agree.My own beliefs as brought me through some very hard times |
Written by Bottleblondesurfer (3331 comments posted) 18th April 2008 | | I must say I think stevetroster makes a a chilling point about the veracity of films,and the fact that you quote a film as some sort of justification. There seems to be a generation,now, whose cultural references seem to come from film and TV and seem to think they hold some sort of truth. I think steve's point,though humourously made, is the most valid one on this thread. |
Written by Merioneth (79 comments posted) 18th April 2008 | I'm reading these comments and I must grant that you have written a poem that inspires a great deal of discussion. That alone is worth a bit of credit.
I think the first stanza had the best imagery. I can see the humanist point you're trying to make and on a level removed from the religiousity of it I agree with you. Human beings can be really wretched creatures. Not all of us, mind you, but as a species we have more than a few kinks to work out, to put it lightly.
As for the comments about "The Passion" I will say that as a horror fan and what I like to refer to as a "gorewhore", it was an excellent film for what I viewed it as, which was an entertaining splatter flick. That may seem perverse to you because of your beliefs, and will probably seem perverse to a lot of other people who don't share my enthusiasm for the genre. That's fine. Different strokes for different folks, as a friend of mine used to say.
I can see Veronica's point and it is valid but I also see Phil's point and it is equally valid. I've said elsewhere that the writer only rents the room, the reader is the one that lives in it. I am unable to divorce the poem from the religious element and because of this I am finding myself in a pretty sparsely furnished flat. A poem's worth can only be appraised by the emotional response it evinces in the reader. For a Christian I imagine this poem would be very powerful. For me, however, it is hollow. Even the humanist element does not evoke much empathy in me because I don't see real sacrifice in the alleged event the poem is based on.
I see My Lai as true sacrifice. Those people not only died, but watched their loved ones raped, mutilated, their children slaughtered, and I'm pretty sure none of them got to ascend to paradise to reign as the ruler of the universe for all eternity. Their sacrifice was not compensated. They died like dogs and they stayed dead.
I apologize that I am unable to give you much in the way in helpful feedback, and if this review seems unkind I am sorry for that, too. I'll be taking a look at your other poetry and perhaps I will be able to offer some more helpful feedback. 
~Merioneth |
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