Thanks to very sound advice from Phil I have reversed the stanzas.
Christians rejoice in your apathy!
Jesus is coming to town,
Judas Iscariot kissing him,
Christians forgive and kneel down.
Canonize Judas, you hypocrites!
Here is the saint you have lost.
Damned for he sacrificed greater than
Jesus upon your worn cross.
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Written by Phil (6393 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
Nothing new in religious blindness, hypocrisy or intellectual laziness. Interesting point - but one I can't get excited about as the whole thing is a myth anyway. I'm sure some may have their indignity excited by your poem (and possibly my comments) but coming from my stand point, it's a given.
The first verse has power - I can imagine my father reading this and spitting brimstone. (Good exercise for his heart.) It begins with a clear accusation and with a vicious twist (to the believer) it explains. I'm not sure how the second builds on that. In some ways it slightly waters down the impact of the first. Worth keeping though. I wonder if you considered ordering the verses the other way around.
Just reread my comments. Sounds like I don't like this much. Far from it - I just don't think I'm your target audience.
Phil. |
Written by Josie (2496 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
| Good for you if you can see good in somebody who betrayed a best friend Brett. Yes, we are supposed to forgive aren't we, but being a Christian is a very hard path to follow. I try to be, but I don't know if I could forgive someone who had done a really dreadful thing to me. There we go - it is you who is the saint I think. Well written. Good metre in your poem! |
Written by Brett (482 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
Phil - your comments are always welcome because thay are always valid! It's an interesting point you make regarding swithing the stanzas around. I merely left them as they were because of the second coming that these poor sods are hoping for, but you may have a point - let me ponder.
Josie - I see no good in someone who betrays a best friend! My point is that the Church have given Judas such a hard time when without him they would have no religion. If it was God's plan for his Jesus ro rise again therefor proving himself the son of God then then (remembering that said God is supposedly omnipotent) is this possible without the betrayal. It seems much less of a scarifice, to me, for the everlasting son of God to merely experience human suffering than for an actual mortal to betray a friend, take his own life, condemn himself forever as a bastard, and have his name usurped as an insult! And all by forgiving christians.
Cheers |
Written by Fledermaus (3159 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
A good point. Without crucifixion, there would be no Christianity, or at least not in the shape that we know it. Thus in a way Judas did help humanity to get rid of the original sin.
It's something Christianity seems to be struggling with ever since it came into being: People killed their god, yet the whole purpose of his incarnation was to get killed. So on the one hand they did a rather evil thing, yet on the other hand they fulfilled his destiny.
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Written by Veronica_Milvus (458 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
We could get very mixed up here between free will, evil, stupidity, fate, predestination...
The more I look at religion the more stupid and less original it all is. So in the end, who cares? But the bitterness comes through very effectively.
I guess what is being said here is that Judas paid a higher price than Christ. He is in hell, but Jesus reigns in heaven. Not much justice in that I suppose as Judas was fulfilling a higher purpose whether he meant to or not.
Got me thinking. I wonder what provoked this poem?
V |
Written by Brett (482 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
Thanks Maus and V.
I just hate hypocrisy.
Cheers |
Written by mia_ms_kim (891 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
A theological can of worms. Although Christians would not quite put it this way, this poem expresses the unfairness of the concept of "predestination". One prime example would be Judas. It's something much ink has been spilt on. And then there is the arguement on how predestination works with free human will, since both are taught in Christianity.
Ah... my theological brain is not big enough.
Mia  |
Written by Josie (2496 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
| The last point is that apart from all of this, the code of living which Jesus gave us is as important today as then. In fact human nature has not changed one little bit. To get up in the morning and show love and respect to the people around you must be one of the best things. Goodnight. My mind needs some rest. Thanks Brett for a "thinking" poem. Well done! |
Written by mr_soul (80 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
Hi Brett
First of all, before I deal with the content, I thought this was a very good poem. It was well-written and you put across your point very well. So well done for creating a good poem that's created a lot of discussion.
As for the content, I think I've talked with you before on this subject in one of the poems I have written. And I agree with you. As a Christian my whole faith is built upon forgiveness. I believe Jesus would have forgiven Judas, and I believe he'll be in Heaven right now. What he did was a terrible thing. Yet he did it because he was a human being, a human being who makes mistakes. Judas showed remorse after betraying Jesus.
I don't believe Judas was following some sort of destiny in betraying Jesus. I believe people make their own choices in life. I think Jesus knew that he would be betrayed eventually. Why? Because he knew human beings were sinners, he knew they make mistakes. It just happened to be Judas who done the dirty deed.
Peter also disowned Jesus three times, in a way a betrayal of Jesus, yet he went on to become a saint and indeed a great figure in the Catholic Church.
A point I would disagree with you on is that his sacrafice was better than the one Jesus made. I don't see how betraying a friend for money is a sacrafice never mind a better one than the one Jesus made. As I say though, its my view that Judas was not, someway "picked" to betray Jesus.
Anyway, a very interesting piece. Good poem |
Written by Brett (482 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
| The point I'm making about sacrifice, Mr. Soul, is that Jesus, in such people's belief, is everlasting and was only experiencing human suffering at that very short stint - Judas, as imperfect as the rest of us, is shown by christianity to be a right bastard (sacrificing his legacy) when without his sacrifice there would be no christianity! |
Written by mr_soul (80 comments posted) 17th May 2008 |
I see your point yes. However, you say he sacrificed his legacy, thats almost to say he had some sort of mission on Earth, to betray Jesus. Maybe that is some people's view. I don't believe he had a mission, I don't believe he was following some sort of order. I think he acted out of his own greed.
Jesus may be everlasting. Christians too believe they will be everlasting. That doesn't mean they'd be so eager to be nailed to a cross, despite the knowledge of an after-life. There'd be still fear of the terrible pain that would have to be endured.
I agree with you though Brett, Judas shouldn't get such a hard time. He should be forgiven. I do see your point though, its an interesting topic |
Crucifixions!
Written by Katanga (727 comments posted) 18th May 2008 |
Hello Brett!
A really strong thought-provoking piece. I have nothing to add to the theoretical debate above, though it often rages in my head!
But did you see the thing in the press recently about religious fanatics in the Philippines?
They regularly nail themselves to crosses as a sign of devotion, prompting the government to issue a 'Health and Safety' leaflet saying:
'Ensure that you sterilise your nails before banging them in.'
Apparently nails and other torturous paraphernalia are shared amongst the community.
Ha! I mean what?!
Your poem raises serious issues - I applaud!
Cheers!
K J T |
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