A rather bathetic ending to what may be looked on as a critique, which uses some of the poets' own images and phrases.
Time and Two Poets .
MacLeish, too, felt the slow but never ending
treading of time across continents and empires,
But You, Andrew Marvell, engaged it tight
within the personal plea of
carpe diem.
True, your coy mistress needed your persuasion,
and your wooing replicates that slow intensity
of your vast vision of vegetable empires
as love grows to the last orgasmic moment
when tearing your pleasures thorough iron gates
you make your sun to run.
More taken by the slow roll of the hours
with no thought of love, and just the faint suggestion
of eternity and and oblivion covering all as he lay
face down on the ball of earth and waited,
MacLeish felt the darkness rising from the east
as night's flowing tide engulfed the world and him.
Time flows inexorably on, running fast or slow.
Each poet deals with it in his particular way.
But if I must choose then I can truly say
that, slow to begin, and after a mid-verse warning
before bringing to your love a glorious morning,
thus making your meaning absolutely clear,
I think that You, Andrew, had the right idea.
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Written by Phil (6730 comments posted) 3rd June 2008 |
A difficult one for me, Brian. While I'm slightly familiar with MacLeish, to my shame, I'd never even heard of Marvell - except in the context of MacLeish's poem.
Poems about poems and poets. I think I'm starting to get out of my depth. While I've leaned a lot - I've a way to go.
Rereading MacLeish's piece, this builds/borrows/whatever very well. I'll have to look Marvell up for a bit more learning. Any piece in particular you recommend?
On a poetic note. I appreciated how this went from the descriptive 'high' language of the first two - to the much more (but not quite) conversational third.
Phil |
Written by NathanRoberts (277 comments posted) 3rd June 2008 |
Is it 'sex or no sex'? A no-brainer surely?
My initial feeling was, like Phil, 'I'm out of my depth here'. Having dealt with another poet's conception of time in one of my own poems (the difference being..I was winging it) I thought I'd better persevere and in fact, I found the more times I read this, the better, and clearer it got.
It has a luxuriously heavy velvet feel in parts. I think I appreciate the subtlety of rhythmic contrast, too, speeding up slightly at the end of the first stanza - iilustrating the different approaches to time.
I didn't feel the ending was bathetic, I thought it was wonderfully worded and maybe the best bit.
I've heard of Andrew Marvell, but that's about it, I confess. Macleish sounds like a riot...loveless, face down. |
interesting
Written by patterjack (1196 comments posted) 3rd June 2008 |
and very pleasant reviews from you both, Phil and Nathan .
I marvel at the fact that Marvell the poet was not better known to you both --To His Coy Mistress is a love poem classic !!! MacLeish , not read much now , is a triple Pulitzer prizewinner .
I was interested in their use of time -- and am haunted by the sound of the winged chariots in Marvell-- spoken in the accent of his time they are two of the most chilling lines in English poetry.
Again , thank you both for your perseverance
patterjack
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Written by mia_ms_kim (1019 comments posted) 5th June 2008 |
I am out of my depth here, pj, so I can only offer immature comments.
I think you captured each poet's thoughts precisely in this piece.
I agree Marvell’s meaning was clear, but the fact that he addressed it to his mistress annoyed me. As a married woman, I immediately thought of his wife. And I find it hard to believe what he says about wanting to admire the mistress’ beauty for endless ages had they the luxury of never-ending time. I think He is only after one thing, and he wants it yesterday, even if he had eternity at his disposal.
But it was MacLeish who truly annoyed me. Death is coming for us all, everything comes to an end, empires, civilisations and each human life – what are we all before Etenity? I understand, but so what? What’s his point? And why did he address it to Marvell, whose point was clearly “Carpe Diem?” I strained my brain to work that out, and couldn't.
Anyway, after re-reading this piece, I breathed a sigh of relief. Clarity! I need it in poems and any written work!
A real exercise of the brain, pj.
Mia  |
Lustful males
Written by patterjack (1196 comments posted) 5th June 2008 |
I would not be too hard on Andrew, Mia . Mistress had a quite different meaning in his time - and it need not be taken as an adulterous relationship ! More just as a wish for sex!
And through all time I think it is the case that males pursue for one purpose only , after all-- and Marvell as a metaphysical poet does it so well , so much better than say Herrick and his Gather Ye Rosebuds style ( though I like Herrick too ! )
Clarity is fine--and a lovely example of it dealing with the same idea can be found in Feste's song song from Twelfth Night , beginning O Mistress Mine . That verse is so purely perfect that there is no true way to deconstruct it -- and as MacLeish intimated in another of his poems -- it just is
Thanks for the review , I appreciate it very much .
patterjack |
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