WARNING: This poem contains language that some people may find offensive. The poem is not intended to offend. It is based on actual events. The title makes a statement, which the poem then questions.
‘four to the floor’ : common phrase that describes the relentless, de-humanised, bass drum beat of most dance music since the late eighties.
'I believe very strongly that a poem should be a disturbing unit' Paul Muldoon
I don't wish to judge,
(but of course we all do),
I could tell by their clothes,
their demeanour, their moves,
four-to-the-floor,
as they mindlessly grooved,
how the crack of one's arse
was so clearly on view
as she smeared it, casual,
an inch from the arms
of a fifty-plus drunk
in a black shabby suit,
who cowered in a corner,
with a mime of refusal,
(though an hour later on,
I note he's still here,
probably nursing
his best one this year),
as the glorious scene
was captured in pixel
by her mate on her mobile,
directing each frame.
And, in case you complain
I've: 'no right to conclude'
perhaps I should mention:
the word emblazoned
on the face of each girl,
hard to remove:
'CUNT'.
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Written by Brett (759 comments posted) 14th July 2008 | A very effective piece of writing, Rob, succinct in its message and the images very visual.
I know you'll think I like this piece because it has a more obvious and regular rhythm than some of your others, but surely that is intentional - it conjours up the music and the scene, the fifty-plus drunk's pulse, too perhaps!
Closing the poem with 'CUNT' I am sure will be seen by some as an excuse to shock - bollocks! I think the harshness of the word very well chosen, this may sound strange but I think that a lesser vulgarity (if there is such a thing) would not convey the behaviour of both girls and Mr 50+ anywhere near as powerful.
Cheers
PS - I do remember you reviewing one piece of mine, Rob, where you considered a four line tetrametric sentance to be 'too wordy' - 22 lines being proof that brevity is the soul of wit I imagine.
Enjoyed. |
Written by Veronica_Milvus (603 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | "the word emblazoned
on the face of each girl"
you mean literally???
Anyway I wouldn't consider ever using it as it a term of abuse, it's just a matter of fact Anglo-Saxon term for a clever piece of kit that half the population possesses...
Well observed, Rob, and the distaste comes through very clearly - but what kind of club were you in when you observed it?!! |
Written by Bottleblondesurfer (3331 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | I can only echo Veronica's questioning of that phrase which jumped out at me too. I know girls sometimes write odd things on their tee shirts but I've never seen anyone write on their face.
As you say, a disturbing piece and none of them seem to come out of it well. I'd give that place a miss, it sounds pretty grim.
If you find dance music de-humanizing try some live Irish music. If that doesn't lift your spirits check for a pulse.
cheers
jane | A disturbing unit?
Written by Katanga (1182 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | Yes indeed, but very well written in my view.
I can clearly identify with your 'fifty-plus drunk'!
Cheers!
John | Whoops!
Written by Katanga (1182 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | I meant ' . . . and very well written' not 'butt'.
John | Thanks all!
Written by NathanRoberts (277 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | NOTE: use of that four letter word was LITERAL i.e. the two girls in question had it written very clearly in bold, capital letters in biro or felt tip on their faces (forehead and cheek). I did have a line in there that stated this more clearly 'in capital biro', which perhaps needs to be reinstated.
Brett: Nothing wrong with having a preference for tighter rhythm or metre, I'm getting more into it myself.
'I do remember you reviewing one piece of mine, Rob, where you considered a four line tetrametric sentance to be 'too wordy''
Can't remember which one that was, but I probably meant 'wordy' as in overly rich language not the word count of a sentence. It is a long sentence, and a bit unwieldy, but it also captures the relentless, pushing forward of the subject matter. I'm guilty of using language that is too wordy on many occasions...I think it's one of the hardest things: to write powerful poetry with very simple, everyday words...it's something I'm a long way off from getting the hang of. I tend to overuse descriptive phrases as well, so please pull me up on that one if you notice it.
Vron: I think that word is in the top five of the most ugly, potentially abusive and aggresive words in the english language, which is why it was so fascinating to see it used with such carefree abandon by a couple of happy go lucky young women. The club/pub in question was, perhaps appropriately, called 'The Underground'. Not the most upmarket of places, but not the worst either...just a standard pub/club. Across the road is a church, one street behind you have relatively upmarket housing.
The thing is, I wasn't shocked at all, just intrigued...it's a scene that wouldn't have occurred twenty years or perhaps even ten years ago. I think it signifies something, but I'm still unsure what.
BBS: 'If you find dance music de-humanizing try some live Irish music.'
I quite like some forms of dance music and in fact I was dancing myself that night.
Of course there isn't any explicit judgement in the poem, what little is there is implied and it could actually go either way...I could be saying 'this is progress', these girls are empowered and fearless and the word has been neutralised in their minds. I don't think it was a conscious, intellectualised decision on their part, and there wasn't anything deliberately aggressive in their attitudes, it came across more like a combination of innocence, ignorance and a carefree attitude. I'm still left questioning it, to be honest.
I did have a few lines after the current end word which captured this feeling of ambiguity:
Yet still I’m left asking
if it’s just an enactment
of the timeless base power
women hold over men,
or whether the spirit
of a pioneering feminist
is quietly chuckling,
looking down with the thought-
‘my work is now done…
this is progress, my friend’.
If anyone's still reading this, I'd be interested to hear what you think of those lines and whether they improve the poem or not. Also,, whether I should reinstate the line about the 'capital biro' which clears up the literal issue?
Cheers!
| Capital Biro?
Written by Katanga (1182 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | I think I prefer the doubt over whether it should be taken literally or not.
Those lines to go afterwards?
I think they're great, but not really as part of the poem, which I feel stands alone. To add them would, I think, move the piece too abruptly from the intensely visual previous content and all that is implied by it, into a more abstract 'commentary' on the scene.
I think it would be excellent to paste those lines into your introduction.
This, of course, only my personal unthought-through initial response, and I too would be interested to see what others think. I could easily change my mind!
Cheers!
John |
Written by NathanRoberts (277 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | Thanks John,
Yes, in many ways I think it's more powerful as it stands. I took out those lines for impact, but also because I don't believe poems have to be about the author's point of view...they can be more open, a way for the author to discover things as well as the reader. It makes the reader do more work this way!
My point of view on this one wasn't very interesting anyway...just kind of sitting on the fence, wondering (as usual!).
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Written by Brett (759 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | Rob, leave it as it stands! Those extra lines, in the opinion of this Welsh drunkard, would take away all the impact of the piece.
Have you ever heard John Cooper Clarke reciting 'Twat'?
The only comparison being that closing word.
Cheers | Sorry!
Written by Brett (759 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | I meant the impact of the closing word! Doh! Drunk again.
Cheers, Rob. |
Written by Veronica_Milvus (603 comments posted) 15th July 2008 | | Emmeline Pankhurst would be revolving in her grave. So you can gain freedom but lose all dignity? Not why Davidson threw herself under the king's horse. |
Written by Talisker (1326 comments posted) 16th July 2008 | Hard-hitting and interesting.
A not comfortable read.
Oli | Cheers again!
Written by NathanRoberts (277 comments posted) 16th July 2008 | Brett: Cheers, you've confirmed my own suspicions, and I'd trust your drunken opinion as much as your sober one!
Vron: Funny, I almost used Pankhurst's name in an earlier drafting. Had to do a bit of quick Wikipeadiaing to gen up on Feminism (not my best subject). Decided Pankhurst probably wouldn't approve!
There seem to be lots of opposing sub-groups in Feminist circles. Some would certainly celebrate these two girls whilst others would blow a fuse in abject horror!
'Dignity'...there's that word again. You are judging their behaviour as undignified? i think most people would, if pushed. But it's interesting that they probably wouldn't think of it in those terms..though I'm obviously guessing here. Perhaps there was nothing lost for them, they were having fun, acting freely. But society isn't just about individuals, it's based on a consensus. My guess would be the current consensus on this one would concur with what you're saying.
Ever the outsider (sitting on the fence), I'm gonna say, I'm still not sure... |
Written by mia_ms_kim (997 comments posted) 16th July 2008 | What a thought-provoking piece, and interesting comments, too. After reading the last line, I wondered at first if the poet was passing judgement on the girls despite his assertions to the contrary by his interpretation of their behaviour. Then after reading the explanations, I realised that wasn't the case.
It made me think deeply because I wasn't shocked that the word was literally written on their faces. I would have been shocked if it had been the poet's own word. It reflects my expectation of the people concerned, I guess.
Are the girls claiming their bodies, lives and persons as their own by this? An in-your-face expression of 21C feminism by the young females? Or is it more of the case of the young girls going any length to shock for attention? Or is it an act of defiance against social norm and convention, a form of rebellion?
Perhaps there isn't much difference between the way the statement those girls were making from other outlandish expressions of breaking with accepted social order, especially championed by some of today's music and musicians. The permissiveness in the western society seems to foster great variety of expressions, both creative and destructive, ande som self-destructive.
I remember once reading a book by drug rehab worker, who said that when girls go bad, they go way worse than boys.
A thought-provoking piece.
Mia  |
Written by pulltheletter (12 comments posted) 17th July 2008 | | I liked it. Well done! | Mia:
Written by NathanRoberts (277 comments posted) 17th July 2008 | Thanks.
'I wondered at first if the poet was passing judgement on the girls despite his assertions to the contrary by his interpretation of their behaviour.'
That was my biggest fear with this one. Without all the added comments it still stands as a possibility...people not realising the literal aspect, thinking I was actually using that word to describe those girls (which would be hideously judgemental and abusive). In the end though, I'll take the risk, because it's a less powerful poem if I'm having to defend myself within it.
An earlier draft made it much clearer that the only judgement I was making (and I stick by this one) was that I could tell within seconds that these were girls who had not read half a dozen volumes of feminist literature. Even that sounds quite judgemental in print.
But, I decided to omit that as well, to make it a bit more ambiguous. It would certainly change the context if these had been liberal feminists making a radical statement.
'Are the girls claiming their bodies, lives and persons as their own by this?'
You're echoing many of my own questions and thoughts on it. If they were it's probably an almost subconscious act, brought about through some permeation of attitude through our culture.
To be truthful, I think we're analysing and intellectualising, when it's probably more the case that they just got a bit pissed and did it 'for a laff', but still it means we're living in a culture in which that can occur without the girls questioning themselves (which would almost certainly be the case, say, thirty years ago). |
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