My first bilingual poem - argh!
All those Caribbean-isle holidays and Patois-speaking grandparents must have had some sort of effect on me, over the years.
Comments would really be appreciated, especially if you read French :)
[Je vais la trouver = I am going to find her] Je plonge en toi, I dive into you,
Une parabole parfaite dessinée sur le ciel, A perfect parabola traced in the air,
Mon ombre, engloutie My shadow swallowed
Sans mot Wordlessly
Dans les profondeurs sereines de l’océan… Into your halcyon depths...
Je reviens en surface.
I surface.
L’exhalation du ciel me caresse The sky's breath caresses me
Pendant la danse de la côte. As I bob away from shore.
Un rivage disparaît de la vue,
A coast disappears,
Un îlot se montre par paresse, An island lazily reveals itself.
La tentation de l’atteindre est ici. Tempting me to reach her.
Je vais la trouver.
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Written by Phil (6836 comments posted) 19th October 2006 | Interesting. Did you write this in French and then translate or the other way around? Either way, I liked it.
All the best,
Phil. |
Written by Jay (12 comments posted) 19th October 2006 | Really liked seeing the words in both french and english - unfortunately am not able to read french so it was interesting to see them together. When I read the poem in english only I thought it really sweet - liked especially the way the shadow was swallowed - good imagery.
Best wishes
Jay |
Written by JourneyAtNight (314 comments posted) 19th October 2006 | I thought this was beautiful in both French and English, although my French is quite rusty! Again, an interesting piece of writing, I liked it a lot.
Take care
E x |
Written by ellipinnock (1753 comments posted) 19th October 2006 | Interesting experiment with some nice touches along the way. Well done.
Elli | Sarah veux tu m'épouser? ;p
Written by Nicolas (1 comments posted) 19th October 2006 | Superbe poème, que ce soit en anglais ou en français, j'aime beaucoup les mots que tu y mets et le fait que tu ne connaisses pas encore tout à fait la langue donne une touche d'originalité à ces lignes : )
Nico,
Big kisses :D | le dumas breige! -na Gaeltacht.
Written by gerardconnolly (1186 comments posted) 19th October 2006 | I do read French. I also speak Gaelic; though, should I do so, I fear nobody would understand me. I had always appreciated poetry to be, as patterjack so appositely put it, the ' widest compressed communication'. 'Showing off bilingual' certainly demonstrates how smart you are. I am unsure what it does for width or communication. I regret I find this the lowest common denominator of pretentiousness.
Slan! | to gerardconnolly
Written by shadowplay (41 comments posted) 19th October 2006 | I find it quite unbelieveable that you have the nerve to come on here, gerard, and say something like 'I find this the lowest common denominator of pretentiousness.'. It shocks me to see that written on this site, where we are all writers and where we have formed a support network that will help every one of us achieve great art. It seems to me that comments like that are hardly condusive to the friendly sort of atmosphere that we as a community attain.
May I suggest that if in the future you come across a piece of work you dislike for its pretentiousness, you don't say it so pretentiously yourself. I am the same age as Sarah- we are both 17- and good friends. She is an extremely intelligent young woman and there is not one bone of pretentiousness in her that she hasn't earnt from being hardworking, precocious and an altogether brilliant poet,
I share her confusion and upset in reading your post because I've gotten the same comment before regarding my work. It's been called pretentious. I've been called pretentious. Yet Sarah and I are both at the stage where we are finding our style and our place in literature; if there even is one. Because of our youth we are unaware of lack of originality and we often speak beyond our years. That is the very nature of poetry; we dabble in subjects we only have the most basic experience of- for instance, love.
Yet by being young and encountering these emotions or writing these poems for the first time, we communicate a raw freshness in the words we do speak. In a poem about teenage romance there may be a lack of originality because the path we are on has been so frequently taken, but it is not intentional. With every new generation the same basic poem about love is given new poignancy, and that poignancy is essential if poetry is to survive.
I write in German don't do so fluently enough to think I can post it. You comment here and list the languages you speak, exhibiting the same gleefullness as us at being able to speak in French or German or Gaelic or whatever. We have no notion that bilingual poetry is pretentious to you or to society or whomever- so when we post it, it is merely us maturing as writers. It is just there, an unavoidable stage as we form, slowly, our work a foetus.
We haven't existed on this earth for long enough to glean the same knowledge you have and so are infallible. You are, too. Please treat young writers with respect and don't unduly criticise them. It only reflects on you as being closed to fresh blood and the fresh ideas we might one day bring. | To the above..
Written by gerardconnolly (1186 comments posted) 20th October 2006 | My Dear Shadow.
Thank you for you eloquent and forthright defence of your colleage. I respect and applaud your honesty. I would expect nothing less myself. And because of that I will not patronise you with anything less than both barrels of my own.
Firstly let me tell you a little story.
When I was young and hideously naive, I got to review an odd and fevered piece by the late novelist, Anthony Burgess, God Rest His Soul, [Highly Unlikely ] , a boyhood acquaintance. I was in awe of him and flattered him. He replied in public and tore me into strips for my lack of candour. I learnt a lot from that humiliation. Notably that if you feel anything is flawed, you have a duty to the author to say so. Anything less is both cruel and dishonest. Which is worse than any harshness.
Therefore if I think something at odds, I always say so. And will continue to do so irrespective of the discomfort it engenders. We must agree to disagree on this.
As far as age is concerned, it matters not a row of beans if you are 17 or 71. There is no dispensation for adolesence in judging. People post here to invite opinion.I gave one. You did not like it. I am sorry but that is tough. We all of us live by the same rules here, young and old. Better that than I insult the poet with cowardly backslapping.
Let me give you some advice, free. Which you are equally free to reject. Take a leaf from the books of the like of Witzl and Wattle, writers on this site. In my opinion two of the best. Both interestingly Americans. They both of them encourage strong criticism thereby to improve their writing and stimulate debate. That's why they are so good. I do not mean this as a perjoritive gesture. You strike me as far too intelligent to take unintended offence. Nonetheless I see no reason to alter what I thought was a valid response. Brutal? Possibly. But it is not personal; rather positively proffered. There are numerous efforts around you and your colleague on which I would not waste my time with a review. Moreover, remember, I am but one voice. Others plainly think differently. And so the world turns round on its axis every day.
I have no wish to appear unkind. Yet if we allow ourselves to be hoodwinked by insincerity, we are doing nobody any favours. If something strikes me as pretentious, the author needs to know. If only to tell me I am wrong.
Again thank you for your courtesy in seting out a contrary point of view.
My compliments to you.
Slan!
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Written by kitten_princess (31 comments posted) 20th October 2006 | I guess I'd better throw my two cents in; lots of opinions around, so I think I should put mine in too.
The bilinguality of the poem was more for readers than anything else. For me, the poem seems better in French than it is in English, but I wanted to offer a translation so that people can read it, and think about it, whether they can read French or not. I didn't mean for it to seem pretentious!
(I had played around with the idea of it being a performance piece, with one language spoken and the other whispered, but I'm still undecided on that.)
To answer Phil's earlier question, when I was writing, I began in English, but found myself finishing in French [je vais la trouver] and I thought I'd experiment, and see how it felt when the whole poem was translated. I think that it may have lost (and gained!) a little in translation, but I don't think it matters too much. 
If someone who reads French could maybe comment on how effective it is in French (compared to the English), that would be really useful!
Thanks to everyone for all the opinions and comments!!  | ...
Written by shadowplay (41 comments posted) 20th October 2006 | I think the thing I found most frustrating is that you commented here by calling it pretentious and obviously judged that via a preconceived idea. However, we didn't know what that idea was- why is her poem pretentious? Surely you would do better as a critic if you were to give reasons as opposed to just accusations.
I took it upon myself to address certain issues I have with people who judge something as pretentious. In my experience it's because of someone's age. As I said to Sarah on MSN last night when she thanked me for posting: "I'm not doing it for you, I'm doing it for youth!".  I'm aware that perhaps I assumed some things in my above post that you hadn't done, but in order to argue fully and logically I found myself proselytising a little.
There is plenty of work on this site I wouldn't care to review, but also plenty I don't have time to because there's so much I want to say. I wouldn't say one without the other, for fear of making a terrible misjudgement on someone's work I have never read.
This poem, Sarah, is beautiful, and I particularly like the line about the 'parabola'. I like the idea of everything but the last line being in French better, because I worry that in the format you have put it in it seems disjointed. The choice of French seems to suit the poem, as it is the language of romance after all. Maybe you could be a little more choosy in which parts you translate. | A response to shadowplay
Written by Bottleblondesurfer (3445 comments posted) 20th October 2006 | I personally found the poem no better or worse than most on the site . I'm not a poet but I do think you have missed the point about criticism and comments. This isn't a self support site nor is it Ebay where we say nice things in order to get nice feedback ourselves. Comments should be savoured whether positive or negative. It is the work that is being judged not the person. Praise is nice and re-assuring but it is adverse criticism that makes you look at the work again and re-assess it, even it you then reject the point. Just be glad it provoked a comment. And as you said
"We haven't existed on this earth for long enough to glean the same knowledge" Well,someone who has the experience and knowledge is assessing the work how else are you to benefit.
Revel in criticism; it is growth and remember
"The meaning of every communication is the response you get"
cheers
BBS | ooops
Written by Bottleblondesurfer (3445 comments posted) 20th October 2006 | "I'm not doing it for you, I'm doing it for youth!".
I think that is the second most pretentious thing I have ever read on this site and I didn't say this for you I said it for middle-age!!
Oh dear
BBS | Disappointed.
Written by gerardconnolly (1186 comments posted) 20th October 2006 | So!?
Shall we part as honest disputants or not!? You do disappoint me, Shadow. I had you down for someone with more savvy and generosity than the interminable schoolboy knowall. No matter. We can all be wrong.
The above question is simple.
I, as I am sure you too, have other demands on your time. As the Chinese say; ' When there are large fish to fry, no point in wasting oil on a sprat'
Cattle if you wish. This is my last word on the matter.
Away now. We shall not meet again.
Slan! | Pity
Written by ellipinnock (1753 comments posted) 20th October 2006 | It's a shame really that the poem has been swamped by squabble. Reviews are but opinions after all and the writer is always free to ignore them if they truly disagree.
As regards the poem...I've read it again and I think that having it completely bilingual does spoil the effect somewhat. I cannot comment on the french content, my understanding is not good enough. I do feel that it might have been stronger if the french had been selectively used. Still, as an experimental stage in your writing, it is interesting in its own right. I'll be interested to see how your writing does progress. In the mean time, don't take it all too seriously
Elli |
Written by shadowplay (41 comments posted) 20th October 2006 | I think that is the second most pretentious thing I have ever read on this site and I didn't say this for you I said it for middle-age!!
Yes, and it was also said with a huge amount of irony...
Shall we part as honest disputants or not!? You do disappoint me, Shadow. I had you down for someone with more savvy and generosity than the interminable schoolboy knowall. No matter. We can all be wrong.
Well I don't quite know why you're insulting me. I didn't have a problem with you, I just wanted to understand your motives for calling the poem pretentious. But now I don't quite understand where you're coming from by saying something like that. | TRES BIEN!
Written by JohnnyD (104 comments posted) 15th November 2006 | VRAIMENT TRES BIEN!
Johnny D |
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