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Non-Fiction
The Grumpy Old Woman and Vegetarianism
Written by fellpony
22 April 2007
Lingering over breakfast this morning I noticed that the butter packet I had just opened carried the words “Suitable for Vegetarians”.

This puzzled me. Since when has butter, a product made from the milk of cows, been a vegetarian option? By no stretch of the imagination can you call a cow a vegetable. So how can butter be vegetarian? No, go away with your silly definitions and versions, lacto-vegetarian, vegan and the like. If you call yourself a vegetarian, you should be eating only PLANT material. That is what vegetables are. Any other name is just an excuse to give a fancy label to your personal appetite.

I understand that some people do not like the taste of meat. I know that people’s opinions on what is acceptable as human food vary wildly. My farm-reared children have sometimes asked “who” they were eating and then happily carried on with their ox tail, liver or chops; at work I have joined in a lunchtime discussion that ranged from one person’s dislike of the texture and flavour of meat, to whether a second person would really eat witchetty grubs, to a third’s considered opinion that if stranded in an air crash with no food, one should eat the babies first while they are still nice and fat. I do understand that to the people for whom the idea of eating meat provokes the same reaction as eating babies, being vegetarian is the only option.

What I don’t understand is the logic of the philosophy. As an example: I will often take the “veggie option” in a canteen. That only makes me a person who prefers not to eat re-heated meat; it doesn’t make me a vegetarian. But I have met self-styled vegetarians who say, “they don’t eat meat” but when you watch them, do eat fish; and others who say, “they don’t eat meat” but who eat cheese and milk and butter and eggs; I even knew one who ate chicken. That is not being vegetarian – that’s just being picky. Super-picky was the bloke who was veggie but got cross if the canteen offered him tomato dishes.

Fortunately, most humans instinctively behave as they are designed, as omnivores – albeit greedy ones who are inclined to eat too many things they shouldn’t.

Often, vegetarians will cite man’s cruelty and exploitation in keeping animals to kill for meat, as the reason for their dietary choices. There is sometimes an implication that if one is not vegetarian one is barbaric and cruel. It would be more sensible to accept that vegetarianism is just a personal indulgence; the squeamishness of an over civilised culture.

I suspect most of the people who say they are vegetarians have never worked on a farm or met a live cow or indeed any animal larger than a pet dog, and almost certainly never been nearer to an abattoir than the other side of their television screen. Leaving aside the townie’s perceptions of a farm as either a totally inhuman meat-or-grain factory or an incompetent muck-and-smell factory, the lack of logic in vegetarianism confounds me. Here we are in a small island suppporting more than 60 million people. Arable land, what there is left of it, has its limitations for food production. For example, despite climate change we have only recently seen maize being grown successfully on a large scale (ironically for this argument, in strains designed for cattle consumption). Large orchards and high volume vegetable production still need kinder climates than anywhere north of the Midlands. Cereals and vegetables get damaged and flattened by typical northern and western rain and wind. But what Britain does superbly well in its higher and wetter areas is to grow that ultimate survivor: grass. Now, as humans can’t eat grass, we need to process it. We do this through the animals that thrive on grass. Cattle eat grass; we eat cattle. This is a simple food chain that schoolchildren at Key Stages two and three are expected to understand.

What I don’t understand are the benefits the veggies think they are conferring on farm animals by not eating them. Vegetarianism is not practical or even logical in most of its thinking. Were it not for the majority of meat eaters making a buffer zone round it, vegetarianism could not be carried through. Just as an exercise, I’m imagining a Britain populated entirely by vegetarians, who have been persuaded en masse to adopt it as a national ethos, with all the recidivist meat-eating villains either eliminated or reduced to living in scraps of relict woodland, competing with the foxes for a rabbit or two.

As the whole nation now doesn’t want animals to be eaten, there is no point in keeping cows, sheep, deer or pigs; no salmon or any other fish, no ducks or hens (to say nothing of the ostriches) are farmed. The lacto-vegetarians might have argued to keep the dairy herd for butter, cheese and milk, but since these are only obtainable as by-products of the cows having calves, there was an outcry against killing the little calves that can never be eaten, and the financial burden of keeping them only to look at soon shot that option down in flames. Therefore the veggie nation has no milk, no butter, no cheese, no eggs, in fact no access to protein of any kind other than that found in vegetables. The trouble is, I seriously doubt if there is enough land available in Britain to grow protein for 60 million vegetarians. All farms not growing hazel nuts have had to go under the plough for cereals, peas and beans, because it isn’t warm enough for soya; and as a further result, the only domestic animals that their children see are kept in zoos. Where the rest of the population of dairy and beef cows have gone I leave to your imagination; you can decide, too, where the sheep flock of over 35 million had to go. I have no idea what the tens of millions of carnivorous pets are going to live on. Vegetarianism doesn’t really seem to have done a lot for these animals, does it?

Leather artifacts such as shoes, and woollen clothes of any kind, and duck- or goose-down duvets, will become museum pieces. Everyone has to wear cotton or synthetics. Greenhouse gas levels are going to be – er – inflated by the methane production from 60 million bean eaters, though perhaps the disappearance of the dairy herds will balance that. Gardens and the remaining farms now have to be fertilised solely by inorganics from the bag, or the sludge from sewage farms, because the natural cycle of manuring the crops with animal muck has been broken. Fertilizer firms will make millions, but the Soil Association will soon have to give up; they simply haven’t a chance of maintaining organic food production.

And I bet you that, almost all the time,  the veggie Britons will actually choose to live off the greater variety of imported foodstuffs that could not be grown in Britain, the produce of warmer climates: soy beans, tomatoes, avocados, pineapples. There’s an end to our independence as a country. Oh I forgot – the Government is hell-bent anyway on sacrificing agriculture to business and commerce, and the country’s food independence is not on the agenda.

Curried grass, anyone?

Reviews
To the haystack with her !!!
Written by patterjack (1328 comments posted) 22nd April 2007
Too logically argued to be funny , FP !  
 
I see you immolated on a flaming grass pyre by a bunch of fanatically carrot waving vegetarians . 
 
I would then bring a band of meat eating outlaws bearing clubs of frozen leg of lamb and use my carnivorous canines ( teeth , that is,not dogs) to rescue you if I could  
 
Re eating grass : the American comedian Stan Freburg has a lovely skit about a hero who advertises Pop grass
 
Well written ; and appreciated as much as is a hot roast dinner 
 
patterjack 
 

Written by Bottleblondesurfer (3445 comments posted) 23rd April 2007
 
I note you say 
"the lack of logic in vegetarianism confounds me." 
 
The lack of logic in most things that people do confounds me. I'm not sure that vegetarianism stands out any more than others. I'm not a vegetarian, and have heard arguements from both sides. ad nausiam. Both deeply flawed and blindly partial. 
If lack of logic is a price we pay for our humanity I am happy to accept and smile blandly as I listen to the arguements
P.S
Written by Bottleblondesurfer (3445 comments posted) 23rd April 2007
BTW,Sue what happened to your Country letters I only had a chance to glance over them yesterday and now they are gone. I thought they were a surreal mix of Beachcomber meets the Archers. You gotta be quick on this site to get the good stuff!! 
cheers 
J
It's harder still in Oz
Written by patterjack (1328 comments posted) 23rd April 2007
I didn't even know about any Country letters It seems that the sun went down on them before I even got to the site !  
 
Reference Fatima ? -- but I am the wrong religion I guess  
 
patterjack
Letters?
Written by fellpony (1652 comments posted) 23rd April 2007
I made them "private" for a while but they're back now.  
 
now there's illogical :p !!
Prayer answered
Written by patterjack (1328 comments posted) 23rd April 2007
For both me and Joshua 
 
Lovely stuff !! 
 
patterjack

Written by Witzl (1585 comments posted) 23rd April 2007
I'm a grumpy (sort of ) old (sort of) woman too, so we've got that in common! I also have a passion for logical arguments, so we're together on that too. 
 
I rarely eat any animal products other than fish or chicken, but I would never call myself a vegetarian. When I'm forced to give my dietary preferences, I say that I eat a largely vegetarian diet, but consume eggs, dairy products, etc. I am amused no end by people who describe themselves as vegetarians and can spout the ideology ad nauseam, then turn around and eat chicken or pork. I'm not happy about the fact that I eat meat, but my husband and kids like it, so I go along with it to an extent as I get tired of cooking two or three different dinners. If I lived by myself, I would almost never eat anything that once had a pulse -- unless I'd killed it myself. I'm crap at archery and I don't own a gun, so I'd learn to be happy with tofu and vegetables, with the occasional free range egg. 
 
My mother ate no meat if she could help it; she worried that most of the meat available in shops came from factory farmed animals who were ill treated. She grew up on a farm and could ring a chicken's neck to kill it -- frequently did, in fact, when she was growing up. I know at least half a dozen vegetarians (or non-meat-eaters, if you will) who used to work in slaughterhouses, including one man from Yorkshire who grew up on a farm and could kill and butcher his own meat if he had to. It was his experiences working in a slaughterhouse that made him stop eating meat.  
 
Of course people are omnivores, but I do believe that some are more carnivorous than others, and that there are very good arguments for eating less meat. If I really wanted to eat meat on a daily basis, I would make sure that it came from animals who were humanely raised, transported, and slaughtered.

Written by Clifftown (642 comments posted) 23rd April 2007
Interesting, well thought out piece, which has made me stop and think. Personally, I call myself a vegetarian although I do eat butter and cheese - I've never actually given it much thought before. Usually I've found it to be (however wrongly) assumed that vegetarians will eat dairy products (but not chicken or fish) and vegans do not, so it's an easy (lazy?) title. I don't wax lyrical over vegetarianism, condemn meat eaters or try to extol the "virtues" of a meat-free diet; I simply don't like the taste of meat, so I don't eat it. This has nothing to do with any preconceived ideas about farms, abbatoirs and the like - it's merely a personal preference.  
 
I think there is a bit of a stigma attached to being "vegetarian"...I do constantly find that when I mention I don't eat meat (which I do only when asked) people automatically expect me to start banging on about cruelty and animal rights - which I would never do, not having enough knowledge on the subject to voice an opinion. I am always being asked to explain why I don't like the taste of meat - as if people are personally offended. It always amazes me that people are that interested in my dietary preferences....I couldn't care less about theirs.  
 
(Oops - just noticed this has turned into a bit of a "rant" on my part!) 
 
Anyway, back to your piece, which I thought was a logical, well thought out argument, and which I enjoyed reading...despite what I might have conveyed above!  
:)
rants welcome
Written by fellpony (1652 comments posted) 23rd April 2007
Clifftown - I was just sparked off by a butter packet and look where it got me! "people automatically expect me to start banging on about cruelty and animal rights" - well, we do sometimes get people doing just that, don't we? Sorry if you sometimes get the backlash :) 
 
I've had to give up eating beef as it inflames me joints too much. Now THAT really annoys me. 
 
 

Written by Livinginanattic (465 comments posted) 24th April 2007
Very well written, I liked your description of a veggie Britain. 
 
There used to be a man who paraded around Oxford Street in London, with a sandwich board warning that eating too much protein would fuel people's lust. He was very well known but somehow I don't think his message had quite the desired effect. 
 
Cheers.
thanks
Written by fellpony (1652 comments posted) 24th April 2007
warning that eating too much protein would fuel people's lust 
 
That's hysterical. I can see that as a short sketch ...

Written by ellipinnock (1753 comments posted) 25th April 2007
Liked this very much FP. 
 
I like my meat but am pretty happy eating vegetarian food these days too. Mind you I did say to my boyfriend the other day that I could be mostly vegetarian and got a very disapproving stare...so maybe not! 
 
I enjoyed this, good read. 
 
Elli

Written by Phil (6836 comments posted) 26th April 2007
Enjoyed the read Sue - and for the record - I'll eat almost anything. You gave up beef as it inflamed your joints. I have to take a walk after eating beef as it inflates my bowels! 
 
More tea vicar? 
 
Phil.

Written by Janie (265 comments posted) 28th April 2007
you argue your point well..i love vegetarian food...and ox tail and steak..and EVERYFINK!! I try not to think about it being killed cos i'm wussy that way...meat is meat..not related to animals in any way...not at all. 
 
I also work with many veggies...there are an awful lot of teachers that are veggies...they all lok pale and stick thin to me..gerra bit o liver an onions down yer necks is what i tell em..they stare back in distaste for some reason. Mind you i've known quite a few of them indulge in a bacon sarnie when they think no one is looking. 
 
anyway, very informative piece and if all that was sparked off by a butter wrapper, thank god you ain't a refuse collector..i be here all day reading. :grin

Written by Fledermaus (3448 comments posted) 28th April 2007
Hi fellpony. 
At least those vegetarians try not to be hypocritical. Many of us city-dwellers eat meat, and meanwhile act as if they are shocked when they see an animal being killed. Some people protest against hunters, but meanwhile eat animals that were bred in bad conditions. We have become so disconnected from nature that we hardly ever think about what we eat. 
So, although I completely agree with your arguments, I can appreciate most vegetarians, for at least they have thought about it, while most city-dwellers don't. 
When they start preaching however, they are just as annoying as everyone who tries to convert people.  
But if they don't, I respect their choice, just as I respect it that Muslims and Jews don't eat pork...

Written by fellpony (1652 comments posted) 28th April 2007
Hi Fledermaus 
 
You're right, I should do a companion piece about the illogicality of urban meat-eaters who don't know where their food comes from. Or maybe I already have (I've been out to a singing party and it's late - do I come here often?) 
 
FP

Written by AnnieSeed (128 comments posted) 9th May 2007
I like this, Fellpony - it's well written and amusing. I've been "vegetarian" for almost ten years now. I tried to give up all animal-derived products but that's such hard work and I did find myself going a chalky blue-white colour. I love butter, cheese, cream etc, and I like fish. I had to start eating that as I felt ill without it. However, I have read that there are definite health benefits attached to not eating meat; that my chances of getting various nasty diseases including cancer and Alzheimers are considerably lower than those of a meat-eater. I gave up eating meat because I do love animals and it seemed hypocritical of me to say that and then go home and cook them. No doubt there are many people who would say I don't go far enough and that I shouldn't be eating fish, butter, eggs etc, but I feel I go as far as I can at the moment. Nor would I ever try to make anyone else feel bad about eating meat - I cook it for my Other Half (who was aghast to find himself falling in love with a Veggie!) 
 
It's a great piece; well done.
hmm
Written by no1butClo (339 comments posted) 19th June 2007
Loved the logic fp - I hope I can argue that clearly when [/if] I'm a philosophy student! 
 
Speaking of hypocrisy, Fledermaus, there was a zoo-based program on TV in the common room today. A big cat of some kind was eating something it had been fed that looked pretty just-dead. The following exchange ensued between a boy and a girl... 
 
Z: "Ugh! turn it off, that's horrible!" 
S: "Why?" 
Z: "That's the INSIDE of a DEAD ANIMAL" 
S: "So?" 
Z: "it's disgusting!" 
 
Me: *thinks* what did you have for lunch?
hmm
Written by no1butClo (339 comments posted) 19th June 2007
Loved the logic fp - I hope I can argue that clearly when [/if] I'm a philosophy student! 
 
Speaking of hypocrisy, Fledermaus, there was a zoo-based program on TV in the common room today. A big cat of some kind was eating something it had been fed that looked pretty just-dead. The following exchange ensued between a boy and a girl... 
 
Z: "Ugh! turn it off, that's horrible!" 
S: "Why?" 
Z: "That's the INSIDE of a DEAD ANIMAL" 
S: "So?" 
Z: "it's disgusting!" 
 
Me: *thinks* what did you have for lunch?
sorry!
Written by no1butClo (339 comments posted) 19th June 2007

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